Important: Retainer Fees
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started by: James_NostackJames_Nostack
on: 1210115848|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
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Still tinkering with this
Important: Retainer Fees
James_NostackJames_Nostack 1210115848|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

I'm still trying to work out a reasonable rate-of-pay for retainers. The rulebook is very clear that having hirelings is a handy thing, but doesn't provide any suggestions on pricing. I've been bouncing around with this a lot, and for the May 7 session I'm going to implement the following changes:

  • Normal Men do not go on adventures unless by accident or necessity. This is why they are "Normal Men."
  • Human adventurers can be hired F/T at 10% of their "level up" goal in gold.
    • An Acolyte costs 150 gold
    • A Veteran costs 200 gold
    • A Medium costs 250 gold
    • An Apprentice costs 120 gold
  • Demi-Humans are available only as the story permits, and their rates may vary.
  • Retainers are presumed to have average stats and Hit Points; they only get "colored in" when a PC dies and the player needs to "drive" that retainer around.
  • Retainers may be used as "guinea pigs" to identify magic items, but if so they expect to keep that item.
  • Retainers check morale under the following situations:
  • When ordered to perform a dangerous task when the party is in less danger
  • When wounded down to 25% of their remaining Hit Points
  • At the end of an adventure, to determine if they continue in service (may be adjusted by giving a cash bonus or treasure)

The price is, quite literally, a retainer fee. You pay the fee once, and the character is at your command for as many adventures as he or she survives and passes the morale check at the end of an adventure. The hireling receives one half-share of any experience points from killing monsters, but no shares of treasure under the standard agreement.

Prior Rulings
In our first adventure, you guys were so strapped for cash that you hired a bunch of "Normal Men" for $5 a head, for the single mission.

In the second adventure, Normal Men were still $5 each, but the heroic classes were 1% o their "level up" value (15, 20, 25, and 12 gp) for a single adventure and 10% for on-going duty.

Reasons for the New Rule
Retainers are the most valuable investment in the game, short of a stronghold or creating magic items. I want the price to reflect that. It shouldn't seriously cramp the style of Sir Froderic & His Amazing Friends, because you guys are sitting on some mad loot from last time, but I don't want these guys to be resources you take lightly, either.

First, my reading of the "Normal Human" monster description in Moldvay and Mentzer suggests that these guys really aren't meant to be adventuring. They might be cooks, messengers, butlers, or treasure-haulers, but the minute you suggest they follow you into the darkness to find a dragon's hoard, they're going to chicken out. (This doesn't quitesquare with how retainers are represented in Moldvay, where hiring 0th level characters is possible, but I can't make everyone happy.)

Second, the fee suggested in OD&D is $100 for 1st level characters. This isn't quite the same as $250 for a Medium, but it's much closer to the right ballpark than, say, $25.

Third, the 1% per mission, 10% on-going split didn't really make a whole lot of sense. Sure, over the course of 10 adventures there's going to be a difference, but (a) they may not survive that long, and (b) okay, so your 3rd level Priest saved $20 out of the $4500 in his possession - big deal! I'd just as soon work it as a lump payment of noticeable, but not crippling, cost.

Fourth, there's a simulationist element here. A bunch of low-level losers like Sir Froderic & His Amazing Friends don't usually hire a whole flock of mercenaries to do the little things: that's what mid-level adventurers do. You little guys have to do a bunch of things yourselves, nervously looking over your shoulders.

Fifth, there's a long-term strategy question here. If you've got a retainer whom you've nourished up through several levels, you're going to want to keep them around rather than starting fresh. On the other hand, if the retainer fails his or her morale check at the end of the adventure, he or she isn't coming back - so you've got to win them over with some bonus pay. But treasure is the main source of player-character XP — you don't wanna go sharing, say, 5% of your share of the treasure with each of your 4-5 dippy henchmen, because that (a) costs you money, and (b) limits your personal power … but on the other hand, your retainers not only stick with you, but they gain XP faster. This might be handy if your PC dies and now you've got a more powerful retainer to "drive."

So - I'm not committed to this in the long-term, but I think there are good reasons for a change in this general direction. We'll try it on May 7 and see what happens.

last edited on 1210116213|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover by James_Nostack + show more
unfold Important: Retainer Fees by James_NostackJames_Nostack, 1210115848|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: Important: Retainer Fees
skatayskatay 1210171415|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

My question is from a loyalty/investment standpoint as a player, what's to stop me from recommending 2 characters per player? It spreads our bets better and eliminates loyalty issues and I get to play a (chaotic) cleric.

unfold Re: Important: Retainer Fees by skatayskatay, 1210171415|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: Important: Retainer Fees
QuendalonQuendalon 1210177049|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Here are some random threads I found about multiple PCs per player:

http://www.enworld.org/archive/index.php/t-31107.html
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=146059
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-56380.html
http://www.feartheboot.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7082&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&sid=66d6e04a63279ef7a3fb7831f0e889c3

Note that some of the issues involving complexity and play bogging down deal with 3rd Edition rules, and so may not apply to their full extend in Basic.

unfold Re: Important: Retainer Fees by QuendalonQuendalon, 1210177049|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: Important: Retainer Fees
James_NostackJames_Nostack 1210177747|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Scott, are you talking about running 2+ player-characters at the same time? The simple response to that is "No, that's what retainers are for" (at least in my game).

If you want to play a Chaotic Cleric in the Black Peaks:

Method One:
(a) Create a Chaotic Cleric (remember: there are no minimum stats needed)
(b) Play the Chaotic Cleric instead of Elphy

Method Two:
(a) Hire a Chaotic Cleric as Elphy's retainer
(b) Kill off Elphy
(c) Choose to drive the Chaotic Cleric
(d) Chaotic Cleric takes Elphy's gear

last edited on 1210178036|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover by James_Nostack + show more
unfold Re: Important: Retainer Fees by James_NostackJames_Nostack, 1210177747|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: Important: Retainer Fees
skatayskatay 1210178630|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

"No, that's what retainers are for" (at least in my game).

Thanks, you answered the question to my probing for an exploit.

unfold Re: Important: Retainer Fees by skatayskatay, 1210178630|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: Important: Retainer Fees
James_NostackJames_Nostack 1212081794|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Having run one game with these new Retainer Fee rules, and played in one game, I like them a lot. The first expedition, all on your own, is terrifying, as it should be. On the other hand, after you've got some loot, each player has enough for 1-2 helpers, which gives you more resources but not so many that you feel like you can squander them.

unfold Re: Important: Retainer Fees by James_NostackJames_Nostack, 1212081794|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: Important: Retainer Fees
skatayskatay 1212085437|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

if the total value of that stuff is less than 500gp, which it probably is (cause it was so easy to get to) we aren't 'much' better off, imo.

unfold Re: Important: Retainer Fees by skatayskatay, 1212085437|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: Important: Retainer Fees
QuendalonQuendalon 1212160692|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Now that I have a copy of the Moldvay rules and have had a chance to start reading through them, I'm thinking of using the retainer rules by the book. They seem straightforward, flexible and easy to use.

unfold Re: Important: Retainer Fees by QuendalonQuendalon, 1212160692|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
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